. >> i do think that the obama: -- that just flood of advertising that the obama: campaign did, directed at governor romney and the whole bain capital theme he laid people off, money was sent overseas and the entire attack on his business background, there's no question that did damage to governor romney for a period of time, and i think in a way it connects to the debate because people were saying, the debates -- they may not even matter that much this year. people are already makes up their minds, looking at the poles, and 0-lo and be hold, who would have preticketed what happened to first debate happened. i would argue the debate matter. >> i think the first debate mattered most. i think if romney had had a bad debate, instead of the other way around, we would not be seeing the race we're seeing today. i think for the reasons gwen, you're right. they do matter in the broad sense. but we also saw movements in these swing states. i always think that there must be diminishing returns at some writtenpoint where you think -- sometimes the same ad is -- i saw the same ad back-to-back three